T-90 Pellet Issues with Guest Chris Holden of The Hop Guild

Episode Overview

We recently had a neat conversation about T-90 pellets. More specifically about their efficiencies… and inefficiencies. Our good friend Chris Holden chimed in on the topic. He is the dude heading up sales and marketing for The Hop Guild up in New York.

So if you're a brewer, you're going to be fascinated by what Chris has to say about ways you can save money, produce more revenue per batch, save water, and more.

This conversation is also for the folks selling products to brewers - hops, grain, stickers, tap handles, etc. There's a subtext to this conversation about understanding what problems you solve for your customer and communicating the value around those problems.

You're gonna love it. Find links to the full convo below.

If you want to find out more about The Hop Guild and their new HOPSAUCE product, head to thehopguild.com/hopsauce

Episode Transcript

(AI-Generated, please forgive any typos)

[00:00:00] Chris Overlay: What up, what up, what up? Welcome to the get optimized podcast. This is Chris overlay, your host, and this is a show all about marketing and growth in the craft beer industry. Now today's conversation, the one that you're about to get into in just a few minutes is super cool because we are talking about T 90 pellets and we haven't really done that before.

On this podcast and more specifically we were talking about the efficiencies and and the inefficiencies With t90 pellets. We're joined by chris holden. He is the dude heading up uh sales and marketing for The hop guild up in new york. They have a new products coming out called hop sauce We had him on the show to talk about that product.

So if you're a brewer listening to this you're going to be fascinated by What Chris has to say about, uh, T90 pellets and hop sauce and this alternative and ways you can save money, produce more revenue per batch, save water, you're going to save the environment just listening to this podcast. Of course.

Now, also what I think is cool about this, this conversation is that if you are in the industry, you're manufacturing a product for brewers. Uh, maybe you're selling hops. Maybe you're selling grain, even like tap handle stickers, all that stuff. It's a, there's a subtext to this conversation about understanding what problems you solve for your customer, for your target market and communicating the value around those problems.

So listen for that. This is really for both sides. Of the industry. I'm very, very grateful to have had the time with Chris Holden, and, uh, he's a really cool dude. Um, so I know you're going to get some value out of this conversation if you do get value out of it. Not if you do, but you're going to get value out of it.

So when you're listening to this, do me a favor, share it with somebody that you think is going to get value from it too. Send over the link via, you know, Apple podcast, Spotify, however, you're, you're doing this. That would be super awesome of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, but for now I'm going to get you into the conversation.

So yeah. All right, Chris, what is up, dude? Thank you for, for jumping on and chatting with me. How's it, how are you doing? 

[00:02:33] Chris Holden: It was a long weekend with Memorial Day and everything. So excellent. 

[00:02:38] Chris Overlay: That's nice, man. I love that when the weather warms up, you know, we get outside the vitamin D or whatever you get from the sun is always, it feels good.

Uh, whether you can really feel the pickup or not. Uh, I don't know what I live in the desert where it's always sunny. Uh, and when I lived in Wisconsin, it was like, it was cloudy more. And, um, you know, when the sun did come out, it was very nice. So always a fan of this time of year. Yeah. It's gorgeous. But yeah, we're not here to talk about the weather, we're here to talk about you and these really interesting things that you're working on, um, and the problems that you are solving for many brewers and this amazing product that you have put together for it, which we'll get to all that stuff.

But let's start with, with you, let's learn a little bit about Mr. Chris Holden here and your background and let's start there. So where do you come from, man? What are you doing in the industry 

[00:03:27] Chris Holden: and who are you? Yeah. So I, uh, you know, I grew up here in, uh, the Southern tier in New York. Um, I live a couple miles basically from where I grew up, um, on our family farm and, uh, yeah, I got into growing hops back in about 10 years ago now.

Um, and that kind of expanded into more stuff and in 2018 we started the Hop Guild, um, myself and another farm, uh, Will It Hoppin Green. And to distribute New York hops as well as hops from around the world basically is what it turned into as well as, you know, um, distributing to around the world. Um, we got into some fruit puree and then, uh, you know, here recently we've gotten into a new, uh, a new product called Hop Sauce.

[00:04:10] Chris Overlay: Excellent. How does one get into growing hops? I understand the journey from like brewing beer, you know, you get a little homebrew kid and start making some beer that is only moderately good. And then you get better and better, or maybe you go to school for it and you eventually go that route. But what about hops?

Is that something you always wanted to do? Or was it kind of a kit project side thing that became the full gig or how did that end up happening? 

[00:04:32] Chris Holden: Yeah, so I, uh, beer wise, I always like toffee beers. Didn't really know what they were when I was drinking them, but I like, I like toffee beers. So, um, and then got into brewing beer, uh, early 2010s and, uh, was going to open up a brewery with a good friend and.

New York started this Farm Brew license, uh, back in, uh, it started in 2013, but they talked about it in 2012, like that's when it was passed. And, uh, it was put together to, um, to, to push agra, you know, the agritourism as well as, um, using more New York ingredients. So the barley, um, and the hops for, uh, for making beer, um, New York State, apples for cider, and obviously New York State grapes for wine.

And, uh, long story short, we, we saw the hop side and we, you know, myself and a buddy of mine, we, we loved hops. So we, we started looking at that in 2013, we, we started the farm and, uh, you know, we started just a little acre and a half and, you know, that expanded into more and more and more and we just kind of kept redeveloping everything.

And, um, yeah, so that's kind of how we got into it or I got into it and, you know, kind of, uh, got, yeah. bit by the hot bine. And that's what we've been doing ever since. That's so cool, 

[00:05:47] Chris Overlay: man. You know, uh, sometimes I joke when, you know, you know, you have a rough week, you know, and the internet is kicking you.

And if you're in digital marketing at all, or do anything on the internet, you know what that means, you know, some algorithm changes, you see some sickness go on with social media or whatever. It's like, man, sometimes I just want to. Unplug and go work on a farm or something like that and unplug is that has to be a benefit, right?

Like you get to unplug sometimes go hang out on the farm and work with your hands and all that stuff I imagine it's probably nice for you. That's why you do 

[00:06:17] Chris Holden: it. Yeah tractor therapy is a pretty nice I will say that 

[00:06:20] Chris Overlay: tractor therapy. I love that. I need to find some of that Uh, it's hard to do out here in the desert, but we get Oh, okay.

So the hop killed gets born because you're into growing hops and you guys are doing great. Uh, you supply hops all over the place. Um, but there are the problems with hops, right? The traditional T90 pellets, you know, uh, they, they have some issues and some inefficiencies in the brewing process. Can you elaborate on that?

I guess, what are those, those problems that you're seeing with these or that brewers experienced with these hops? 

[00:06:55] Chris Holden: Yeah. So, I mean, You know, IPAs in general, they're, you know, they're the biggest craft brewery, you know, craft beer genre of beer and, and they use a lot of hops and, you know, T90 pellets soak up a lot of work in, in the beer making process.

So, you know, at the end of the day, uh, your revenue and profits are down and, um, as time has gone on new, new products have, have come about and, um, um, to make things more efficient. No prop, more profitable for brewers. You know, T90s are nice, but, uh, you know, they, again, they, they, they soak up work. There's certain places they work well, certain places that don't work well.

Um, storage is quite, you know, quite a lot, not as bad as, you know, whole cone hops, but it still can take up quite a bit of room, um, lugging around a 11 or a 44 pound bag can be tiresome for you, a brewer and you know, a brewer. If they start off when, you know, in their early twenties, you know, if they want to be doing this for a long time, cause brewing beer is fun.

You know, by the time they're in their mid thirties or forties, you know, you know, picking up a 44 pound sack, you know, 40 times a day is it gets a little bit, you know, rough on your body, you know, yeah, 

[00:08:04] Chris Overlay: I guess I didn't even think about that from that perspective is that these, these dog food sacks, bags of stuff, you know, not too bad when you're young and strong and whatever, but, um, you know, it's, it's harder, you know, get up those stairs up to the whirlpool and get those things dumped into there, uh, for sure.

Right. The, the, you know, the wasted war perspective is those, those pellets are soaking up more that basically you're saying isn't usable, you know, and that's, that's more that could be turned into beer and ultimately 

[00:08:35] Chris Holden: money. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Inefficiencies to, you know, when you put a pallet in, you're getting what, 30, 35%, I think efficiency out of it to begin with.

That's all you're able to pull from the pellets itself. Um, maybe a little bit higher for some, you know, for some, um. Areas in the brewing process and techniques and certain pieces of equipment and everything. But yeah, at the end of the day, they, they, they work well. It's a staple in the, in the brewing industry, but, uh, there's, you know.

There's other ways to do things, too. 

[00:09:05] Chris Overlay: Excellent. Excellent. And then, you know, it's all things that you just, to me at least, and I don't work inside of the brewery area, you know, I make the pretty pictures online and sell this stuff, but imagining it from my perspective, it's like, well, yeah, there's probably a lot of stuff that goes on.

All of that shipping material that you've got to ship these hops in, the bags, the cardboard, that plays a factor in this, too, 

[00:09:28] Chris Holden: right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the bags, the bags themselves, you know, that, uh, that can add up quite, you know, in, in the dumpster, especially if you're putting seven, eight, maybe, you know, seven, eight cases in, or even a pallet at a time or whatever.

Plus, yeah, all those boxes, I mean, um, finding a place to recycle it, or, you know, maybe it's cheaper to put it in the garbage. And obviously we don't want to be doing that right now. Um, and then the shipping costs in general, you know, you see, you had a big 44 pound case and, you know, a FedEx driver, UPS driver, they're not wanting to pick that up all day long.

So they're just kind of tossing it around and beating it up. And by the time it gets to the brewery, it might be, you know, half open, maybe, you know, hopefully everything's in there. Usually it is, obviously, but at the same time, I mean, that box is usually pretty beat up. Um, um, if it's traveling across the country.

Yeah, 

[00:10:16] Chris Overlay: man, tons of cardboard, which is, you know, I guess an environmental concern as well. You want to be recycling and using less paper. It's kind of the vibe of the world today and water too. You know, if you're, if you're soaking up water and wasting that water, there's water there. But I imagine the cleanup on these hops at a huge scale in these, in these tanks are, are intense, especially if you're doing a big hoppy beer.

There's so much in there that you just got rinsed down, clean off and it has to be a mess. 

[00:10:45] Chris Holden: Yeah, absolutely. So maybe not out here as much with the water, water consumption is a huge thing out here, but I know, you know, out in your neck of the woods, it's a little different. Um, you know, we work with guys in Idaho that brewers, you know, every year they're, they're going out every Thursday, Friday afternoon, they tell me, and they're, they're looking out at the mountains to see if there's any snow cap to make sure they've got water or to be thinking about that.

I mean, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy to think that that is how conscientious some of these people are. Um, in different parts of the world, especially here in the United States of what they've got to think about with water. Um, and then obviously the cleanup you're using more, if you have to use more water, that's a big thing too.

So, yeah, I mean, um, if you can clean things up a little quicker and easier, you ain't got to sit there and hose everything down or squeegee it off the floor, spray it out of a tank, you know, that's, uh, you know, it's a lot less pain in the butt at the end of the day. 

[00:11:36] Chris Overlay: Every second counts, uh, at some degree, and every drop counts to some degree.

So, you know, obviously, you're kind of recognizing there's some opportunities here for efficiencies, some improvements, uh, but why do you care? You know, I mean, this is obviously something we're noticing, but you, you know, have approached this and taken it head on. Like, what about this gets you motivated to solve these 

[00:12:00] Chris Holden: problems?

Yeah, so on, you know, on the farming end, you know, we've got a couple varieties that we're really pumped about anymore. And some of these hops are, you know, they're, they're drought resistant or drought tolerant or maybe one of them is more, um, they're very efficient. They don't need a lot of water for, you know, they don't take up a lot of water, um, themselves and being on the farming end.

Um, You know, we don't want to have to sit there and just drain cricks and rivers and ponds and lakes or whatever just to water stuff. You know, you don't want to have to do that. Right. That's not fun. Um, and so from that end of the spectrum, we kind of looked at that for the brewing side, and it's like, well, if we have less, and we can get more out of it.

Why wouldn't we want to go that route, you know, if you can, you can produce more hops on the farm, and one acre. It just makes everything more efficient. It's less work that I have to do at the end of the day. Um, I'm a millennial, so I'm thinking about that all the time, you know? Um, so yeah, at the end, you know, basically if we can.

Do the same thing or help the brewers do the same thing. We kind of thought about that and thought that that might be a good approach, um, going forward with 

[00:13:10] Chris Overlay: some of this stuff. In an ever so conscious cost conscious, uh, world we live in this economic environment we're in, in 2023. And I imagine it's going to be like this for a little while.

Uh, saving and creating efficiencies anywhere is, is a big issue for, for everybody in the industry. 

[00:13:29] Chris Holden: Yep. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:13:31] Chris Overlay: Across the board. Okay. So what is hopsauce actually? Uh, so I think that's, that's where we're headed with this is that they, you've kind of created this product that is a solution to some of these things that create efficiencies and solve some of these problems, but like help us understand what this product even is in the first place.

[00:13:51] Chris Holden: Yeah. So hopsauce, it's a, it's a CO2 it's proprietary product that we came up with utilizing CO2 extraction. Um, and, uh. Basically we looked at, you know, we're not, we, we sell it to more crappery. So we're not in like a bittering market so much as some of the larger companies and everything. So the bittering extract didn't necessarily make sense, even though we do some of those.

Um, so we wanted a product that could replace, you know, T 90s, like. Bittering extract would, but on the flavor and aroma side, because that's where, you know, I would say 90, 95% of all of our sales go anyways. Um, so we, we had an opportunity to test some stuff out on a, on a system here. Close to us. Um, and we started taking some ideas from that and then we actually brought that system in house and we took those ideas even further and basically develop this product in a way we kind of stumbled upon it.

Um, and then after we stumbled upon it, obviously we had to start fine tuning it and that was a developmental stage and getting it to brewers and, you know, they were like, this stuff's awesome. Like, we need to do more. And, uh, so that's basically what it is. Um, it's a, you know, a flowable at room temp, um, aroma and flavor extract for the, um, whirlpool side.

It's 100% hops. There's no, you know, there's no additives or anything in it. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a direct replacement for teen nineties because you're getting, um, 100% of the, the flavor and aroma from the T90, um, out of this product. Um, so you're getting polyphenol portion, you're getting the oil, you're getting the alphas.

Um, so yeah, it's, it's overall, it's basically T90s. 

[00:15:36] Chris Overlay: Wow. So this is like, uh, like, uh, um, it's like an oil, basically, I've seen this and I'm trying to describe for the folks that, you know, are listening is, is it's an oil that comes in a jar, basically, that you pour into, uh, the whirlpool and, uh, you can use in the fermenter to correct you're 

[00:15:54] Chris Holden: saying, yeah, you can use it.

Use it on the cold side, but not in secondary. We, we, we use it on the cold side during, uh, active fermentation basically. But yeah, um, Whirlpool additions in that spot works really well in. But yeah, it's kinda like a anywheres from like a, a thick molasses consistency to a nice, uh, you know, honey consistency depending on the variety and everything.

But yeah, it's, it's pretty easy to work with. Yeah. Like you said, it comes in a little jug about like this. Um, that's a, that's a half kilo. So that's worth about five and a half pounds. So two of those makes up a bag of hops, basically a little bit more technically. 

[00:16:29] Chris Overlay: Wild man. And this thing is so cool to see in action.

And, uh, it truly is a, it's pretty magical. And when you think about it, it's like, okay, this is pretty obvious. So you want something that's a little more condensed. We can use, like you said, less of, or get more out of. The same or less. It's the whole idea behind it. And, um, I think you kind of explained how it works to you using this as a direct replacement to T 90 pellets in different stages throughout the brewing process.

Okay, so comparing it to Traditional pellets. How does this thing match up? Like, where are you seeing the benefits on it? Like, you know, let's start with, with something you said early on about wart savings. So compared to T90 pellets, what's the difference in, in the lost or saved wart or transferred wart into, into the fermenter?

Yeah. 

[00:17:20] Chris Holden: So about if you replace one kilo, um, or if you, yeah, if you replace 12. 1 pounds, um, or about 5. 5 kilos of hops. Um, with one kilo of hop sauce, you can get anywhere from like 16 and a half to 18. 2 ish gallons of extra work transferred to the fermenter. So it can be, you know, small scale. It's really good.

If it's on a big scale, it's even better. Right? Um, so that's kind of about what equates to, um, in, in, in the work efficiencies. Yeah. Got it. 

[00:17:55] Chris Overlay: And all that extra work becomes more beer that you can sell, ultimately, right? And it's the same. So, you know, you're, you're actually getting more efficiency and more liquid, the sellable liquid at the end of the day, which, uh, which means more money in your pocket per batch, basically.

Yeah. 

[00:18:12] Chris Holden: Yeah. We, we, we say it's added, added profit. It brings, brings revenue up, but it's technically, if your revenue is used to being here, it just adds profit to everything. 

[00:18:19] Chris Overlay: Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's, you're getting more for the same, which everybody loves that, right? Uh, how many times are you hearing that nowadays where, you know, someone's going to give you more for the same price?

Never. Or the same, the same, same ingredients, same, whatever. It's always like, well, you know, we're going to charge you more or whatever, or it's going to cost you more. But in this case, it's, it's the same and you get more, which is excellent. Um, now this stuff has to weigh less than all those 11 pound bags of hops too, correct?

[00:18:47] Chris Holden: Yeah. So. In a pallet quantity, um, way of explaining it, on one pallet, a normal pallet of T90 pallets, you've got 25 cases or 1, 100 pounds. Um, so all of that condensed can fit into roughly three cases of the hops, uh, or three cases in general. So you're taking 25 cases and turn it into basically three cases.

Um, So, you know, the density is, is way down, um, the weight wise. I mean, obviously it's gonna be a lot easier. You're, you're picking up, uh, you know, one kilo for every bag of hops. So it makes it a lot easier that way. Excellent. 

[00:19:30] Chris Overlay: Yeah, man. I mean you're it is shipping. I mean in shipping costs are super important nowadays as well I mean, it's so expensive expensive to ship anything Especially if you're looking at international shipping, I mean, dude that gets crazy Uh, you know shipping something to mexico even or you don't I don't want to think about it over the atlantic.

It's super expensive So any weight that you can save there? Is massive and again puts more money back in your pocket because you're reducing those costs, ultimately. 

[00:19:59] Chris Holden: Yeah, I mean, um, you know, in the United States we'll say, LTL started regionalizing quite a while ago, right? And that brought some of the costs up.

So if you can take a freight shipment, and you can turn that into, you know, a single case or two case shipment for, uh, through Hopsauce, I mean, just send a parcel, I mean, it's going to save a, you know, quite a bit of money there. I don't remember the exact percentage, but it's, it's quite a bit different.

And then, yeah, and you're talking different countries and having to go international even better, right? I mean, most of the time, if you're shipping even five cases internationally, you're going to have to ship it free because it's a lot cheaper that way. But if you can, you can ship that in a, in a small box, you know, then it's.

That's going to save that customer a huge amount of money. 

[00:20:46] Chris Overlay: Tons, tons. And you have any issues shipping it internationally, uh, in its new format and this oil 

[00:20:53] Chris Holden: format. As of right now, no. Um, I'm sure something will arise sooner or later, um, with, you know, with expanding and everything, but as of right now, uh, there has not been any issues, no.

Got it. And 

[00:21:06] Chris Overlay: thinking about it as a smaller product, it takes up less space. You know, and if you've got pallets of hops everywhere, that ultimately is storage you can't use. I mean, am I thinking down the right lane here with storage space savings? 

[00:21:18] Chris Holden: Yeah, well, I mean, looking at our cooler, we walk in and we see all these pallets of hops sitting in there and it's like.

And you look over and we've got a couple of different racks for certain things. And it's like, man, all of that could fit right over here. You know, if it's in, in hop sauce for me. So yeah, it definitely cuts down on that side, both from our end, but also, you know, obviously from a brewer's perspective. If, uh, you know, right now with things being so expensive, if they don't necessarily want to look at expanding, but they need to expand to a certain extent, this could be a huge way for them to, um, transition and maybe kind of be like an inter intermediate solution, um, as well as maybe a long term solution if they don't have to have as many pallets of hops in the cooler.

[00:21:59] Chris Overlay: Yeah. You know, just that little bit of space could be the difference between, you know, something that's earning you money with that space or a little bit extra product. I mean, if you're creating more products, cause it's more efficient, then you got to store that product somewhere. And, uh, Without buying a whole new walk in or something like that.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Right on. Right on. Um, okay. So kind of back to the wart reduction conversation, but a different angle on it is we talked about cleanup earlier and how the pellets can be a pain in the butt to clean up, not only in, in just, you know, effort, but labor costs, water waste, all those kinds of things.

Where does, where does hopsauce fit into the equation there in terms of cleanup? Yeah. So 

[00:22:44] Chris Holden: if you're, you know, for the most part, replacing your T90s with hopsauce. The, um, the hop sauce should be dissolved into the liquid. So at the end of the day, if you don't have any whirlpool additions outside of the hop sauce, I mean, you could technically transfer basically everything from the kettle and also including not having a bittering addition.

So say, say there's no, no hot pellets in the kettle whatsoever at all. You could literally take and transfer everything from the whirlpool, brew kettle whirlpool, um, into the, into the fermenter, um, as much as you want. Um, minus say hot break or, you know, I know some people are comfortable with that, but, uh, you can, you could literally transfer everything over.

Um, meaning at the end of the day, there really shouldn't be any spraying down in that tank whatsoever at all. So there's no sludge, um, there's no tube waste basically. And, uh, so yeah, it could cut down that basically all together, where all you're doing is just doing a quick c i p at the end of the end of your brew day.

Wild. 

[00:23:52] Chris Overlay: So all of that spray down all of that, you know, hop gunk that you've got to put down the trains now is Doesn't exist, basically, um, or if you're using a little bit of hops in the same minimal, minimal in there compared to what was going on before, uh, and that's, that's labor costs because it's less time.

It's, uh, it's water waste that you're not putting down the drain. So, you know, I don't speak on behalf of the Nevada breweries, but I imagine, you know, water is a big deal out here in Nevada, California, all these desert ranges, any amount that you can save. Uh, counts, uh, as well. So, so you're saying it's, it's very friendly to the cleanup process.

[00:24:34] Chris Holden: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you're not gonna, you shouldn't have to be able to worry, you shouldn't have to worry about any true going down the drain really at all. I mean, obviously if you're doing a bittering addition or different additions during the brewing process, um, you're going to have something, but at least it cuts down on that whirlpool 

[00:24:50] Chris Overlay: charge.

Well, I mean, hopsauce sounds pretty legit. Um, you guys are, you guys are obviously, you know, selling it at this point, right? You guys have got, uh, I mean, how many varieties do you guys have available at this point? We have quizzing you 

[00:25:07] Chris Holden: now. So technically there's 10, I think it's 10 and we've got two more that we're getting ready to release.

[00:25:15] Chris Overlay: Excellent. Is that kind of the plan is, you know, there's going to be more varieties coming out as this stuff gets more popular, basically. 

[00:25:22] Chris Holden: Yes, as long as it makes sense, right? I mean, maybe, maybe two, there'll be some varieties that we drop off if it, you know, people aren't using those specific varieties or whatnot, or doesn't make as much sense.

But yeah, we've got a couple. We've got at least three other hop varieties that are on our radar. So to do this with as well, um, the likely there might be one of them this summer released, um, the other two probably after harvest this, this coming year. But yeah, there's a couple more that we're definitely interested in being able to broaden the horizons for, you know, brewers to be able to play with this stuff.

[00:25:54] Chris Overlay: So somebody was interested in starting out with this and said, all right, this seems interesting. I want to check it out. I want to maybe give it a shot and try it. What would be your recommendation for for like dipping your toe in this and starting to see some of the impacts and seeing it for yourself?

[00:26:11] Chris Holden: Yeah, so the introduction that I would say would be is your recipe development. Um, if it's a brand new recipe, just Start off with hop sauce, but at the same time, I probably wouldn't recommend them to just start off with it. I take an existing recipe, um, cut it 50, 50 with the pellets that are in there already and see what it does.

And so they get an idea. And then once they have a better grasp on how it works, then start designing the recipes around the product itself. Um, so that way it doesn't confuse them or, you know, throw a curve ball. You know, you never want that. 

[00:26:50] Chris Overlay: Yeah, especially if you've got a recipe that's consistent, people are used to it, that kind of stuff.

And I guess if you wanted to take it a little slower, you know, walk before you run on that front. Um, definitely a smart way of, of approaching that. Right on. And then they can find this on, uh, the Hop Guild. Website, correct? Is this where they go to find this information, 

[00:27:11] Chris Holden: basically? Yeah, we've got all the information on our website, um, or they can always reach out to one of our three sales managers and we can get the information over to them.

Um, we've always got stuff popping up on social media too about it, so they like scrolling through the Facebook or Instagram pages, there's information in there 

[00:27:29] Chris Overlay: too. Good stuff in there. You can probably see the product, you know, if you want to take a look at it, it's flowing and, uh, you guys got an awesome video of the hop sauce on a hop on your website too, which is pretty neat to check out.

So, uh, right on. Well, what else, what else you got for us? What else do you want to tell us about hop sauce or the hop kill? What else is going on in your world that, uh, we can help share for you? 

[00:27:52] Chris Holden: Yeah. So we've got right now, we have a new system being installed. They're actually hooking it up right now or this week.

And that gets commissioned, so that way we can start expanding on some of this other stuff, doing some R& D, um, on different varieties, expanding kind of our horizons on hopsauce, maybe some other products and everything that we've been, you know, talking about and thinking about that'll be down the road.

Um, so that's kind of what we're working on now. It's growing season, so getting into June, all our growers here in New York and all around the world, they've got everything on the, on the string, it's climbing, so we've been, uh, Um, talking with a lot of growers right now and, um, trying to, um, get dates that we can go out and visit and everything too, you know, that's always fun.

Um, but yeah, that's kind of, kind of it on our side. Um, it's busy, busy, busy season too, so we're, we're rocking along every day. 

[00:28:43] Chris Overlay: Yeah, grow time r and d equipment. That's exciting stuff, dude. Congratulations On that and uh, congratulations on this product and I really think you're going to do great things I think you're going to be helping a lot of brewers and i'm excited to see see how it plays out Yeah, thank you.

Appreciate it. Sweet, man. Well, uh, we'll definitely have to do this again sometime I appreciate you jumping on and chatting with us for now. Uh, we'll let you get back to your busy schedule, man Thanks, chris. Awesome. 

[00:29:10] Chris Holden: Thanks guys